Meisha/Arco Flute Foundation - We're an American Band

Meisha, for those who don't know, are a wonderful mostly instrumental group that blend post-rock, minimalism, and ambient music into a beautiful wall of sound. Their new band, the Arco Flute Foundation, is a cinematic space rock collective that creates intense rock and chilling soundscapes.

The weather quickly became dangerously cold and the roads iced over. Mike and Pete were determined to pick up Groper at 11:00, but I feared for their lives. There was a huge car accident right outside my house, so I tried to delay them from leaving as long as they could.

We decided to play "Invisible Jukebox," as popularized in The Wire magazine. I played Mike and Pete several cuts from my own record collection to see what their thoughts were on this music and their own. Eventually, they decided to leave to rescue Paul from the evil airport. I don't know if they safely made it--the roads were pretty scary and I haven't heard from them yet. So this may just be the LAST interview with Meisha you will ever read. Whether the other four members of the Arco Flute Foundation will continue the band without Mike and Pete remains unknown.

Just a note: my record label did release two albums by the Arco Flute Foundation, so I just want to warn you of my own interest in these guys.

Photo by John Fail

fakejazz:We'll start off with something by a group you're probably familiar with.

1. Art Ensemble of Chicago - "Ohnedaruth" from Bap-Tizum

pete:Is this the Art Ensemble?

fakejazz:Yes.

mike:The Art Ensemble of Chicago... I have Fanfare for the Warriors and Live in Paris, 1970, and my favorite part of the Art Ensemble is kind of when they're doing the very airy sound percussion, not really a full band but more drone oriented. Well, not exactly drone-oriented, but much more loose and quiet, and they can build sound in a way that I don't think any other jazz band has ever been able to build sound. The 6th song on the Fanfare for the Warriors CD, I think it's called "Tnoonah"--it is the direction that I most see the music of the Arco Flute Foundation going to, as far as what we're doing with percussion and organic sound.

fakejazz:Of all music that influences you, or just of the Art Ensemble?

mike:Well, it's really something that I've been thinking about ever since I heard that. I guess it's the parts we go into now that sound more like No Neck [Blues Band] and stuff, at least for me have me thinking about the Art Ensemble.

2. Masaki Batoh - "Kikaokubeshi" from Kikaokubeshi

pete:It sounds like Steve Reich meets Tomorrowland.

mike:Is this Terry Riley? No, wait - is this Richard Youngs?

fakejazz:No, guess again. One more guess.

[pause]

mike:I dunno.

I like the pulse.

mike:I like the pulse, and the underwater stuff sounds really good.

fakejazz:It's Masaki Batoh from Ghost, solo.

mike:Ah, is this the record where he does "Yoo Doo Right?"

fakejazz:No, it's the other one.

pete:This is beautiful.

mike:This is much better than his Ghost output.

pete:Yeah, I like the combination of the electronic bubble sounds with... I dunno what the other instrument is...

fakejazz:I think it's a guitar.

pete:Really? It's a direction I could see Meisha moving towards.

fakejazz:So this style of music reflects more in Meisha than Arco?

pete:Definitely. I see Meisha moving this way, more in our last set. Some of the stuff we've been writing, without copying this idea... we are probably heading towards this type of feel--the electronics mixed with bowed guitar and other instruments.

fakejazz:Do you worry about sounding like other artists?

pete:No, cause we never listen to other music at times when we are writing.

fakejazz:See, Meisha has always struck me as a band that is both highly influenced and highly original.

mike:I see that because we all know what we like so much. I really think that us learning how to play was based on us listening to a lot of music.

pete:We're all listening to different things at different times. It's always a different influence coming in, so whenever it sounds like something else it doesn't make sense at the time cause none of us are listening to the same things at the same time. Does that make sense?

mike:I understand what you're saying.

3. Robert Wyatt - "Team Spirit" from Ruth is Stranger than Richard

pete:Is this John Coltrane?

fakejazz:No.

mike:It sounds like it could be Pharoah Sanders or something.

pete:It's definitely something from the mid-60's, Impulse...

fakejazz:So you're definitely feeling a 60's jazz thing from this?

mike:Yes, is this Pharoah Sanders?

fakejazz:No, nowhere near.

[vocals begin]

mike:Oh, it's Robert Wyatt. What record is this?

fakejazz:Ruth is Stranger Than Richard.

mike:Oh, I have this actually.

fakejazz:It's a great record.

mike:Yeah! I just bought Shleep a few weeks ago, which is also a great record. I think out of all of the lyrics I have read lately, his are among the most interesting.

fakejazz:You're speaking of stuff like this, or more of his political stuff?

mike:His political stuff, a bit. But even on Shleep he has this one song and it's like "Given Free Will But With Limited Expectations?" I can't remember. But I love that one.

4. Henry Cow - "Ruins" from Unrest

mike:This sort of reminds me...

[pause]

pete:Almost a Morton Feldman feel at the beginning, but not here.

mike:[pauses] I dunno what this is.

pete:Something from the 70's?

fakejazz:It's "Ruins" by Henry Cow, from Unrest.

pete:It's Unrest?

mike:No, it's Henry Cow. I have only one Henry Cow record, and... this isn't it. But there is a sock on the cover!

pete:I don't know that I like this.

5. Tortoise remix - "Djed" Bruise Blood Mix by U.N.K.L.E.

mike:That's Tortoise.

fakejazz:You heard about 3 seconds before you recognized it.

mike:Is this the Jim O'Rourke? No, it's U.N.K.L.E. Ah, Tortoise. I don't really listen to Tortoise that much anymore, but if I do I listen to the first album.

Photo by Miriam Greenberg

6. Annie Gosfield - "The Manufacture of Tangled Ivory" from Burnt Ivory and Loose Wires

mike:Is this Charlemagne Palestine?

fakejazz:No, but you have the composer thing right.

mike:Is this... Pierre Boulez?

fakejazz:No, it's a contemporary composer, Annie Gosfield. From New York.

mike:I don't believe I've ever heard of her.

fakejazz:She works in detuned pianos and exploits their percussive elements.

mike:Interesting.

7. Balinese Gamelan "Ludong" from strange Gamelan record

mike:Is this Harry Partch?

fakejazz: No, but we were talking about Harry Partch before the interview, and ... well, just how great he is. But it's not Harry Partch, don't think that cereberally.

mike:What year is this?

fakejazz:[Looking] I don't actually know. It's very percussive though.

mike:It's almost too percussive, which I find to be the most interesting kind of percussion. When you have all of the different timbres...

fakejazz:Meisha has traditionally stayed away from percussion.

pete:Except for using Tibetan bowls.

fakejazz:Striking the bowls as percussion, yes.

pete:I've played the cymbal.

fakejazz:True. But in Arco--a lot of people would be quick to say that Arco is just Meisha with percussion, but I don't think that's true.

pete:Well, it's a completely different writing style. It's two different ballgames in two different cities.

fakejazz:Well Arco is very percussive--you have Jeff [Komara] blasting away at the center, and then you also have Rob [Dingman] hitting some things, and in the last set, even [Matt] McDowell was banging on the drums as well.

mike:And I've played drums too. I played drums on first part of the last set.

fakejazz:And it's very percussion-oriented. How does writing with that in mind compare to Meisha, which is typically more tone-oriented? This is a recording of Balinese Gamelan by the way, a record I found at a thrift store for 50 cents.

mike:Oh! I dunno, I read this one interview--well, an article about Angus MacLise, I think it was in The Wire, and he said his biggest influence for percussion was the rain. That made me really want to start using percussion for some reason.

pete:I always thought it was because we found people to play with who played percussion. [laughter]

8. Brian Eno - "Discreet Music" from Discreet Music

mike:Brian Eno.

[silence]

mike:I expect you want us to talk about what kind of effect Brian Eno has had on our music.

fakejazz:Maybe. mike:Brian Eno has had no effect on our music, except that he has affected other people that we've listened to.

fakejazz:So it is a secondary influence?

mike:Yes, definitely.

fakejazz:Would you call Meisha "ambient," at this point?

mike:No.

fakejazz:"Ambient" always seems like a derogatory term to me, because it suggests that it is music that you shouldn't pay attention to, but rather delegate to the background. Maybe I'm missing Eno's original point, in some ways saying that you COULD focus on it but don't have to--sort of like Rafael Toral's liner notes to Wave Field say to play loud or soft.

mike:I would say that [Mike] Moorhouse and McDowell are more of Brian Eno fans than Meisha.

fakejazz:I think Arco has some stuff that seems influenced by Brian Eno, especially on the "interlude" tracks on the CD.

pete:See, I didn't play on most of those.

mike:[laughs]

fakejazz:You're lying - I was there when it was recorded.

mike:Well, they just listen to him more--I wouldn't say that it's an influence. I do have that instrumental CD that you stole from the library and gave to me.

fakejazz:Shut up!

mike:But this doesn't grab me as much as something worth getting in to.

fakejazz:This is "Discreet Music"--this is arguably the first ambient record ever released. To me this seemed very radical for the time, within a pop context.

mike:I dunno.

9. Jefferson Airplane - "A Small Package of Value Will Come To You, Shortly" from After Bathing at Baxter's

pete:Is this Can?

mike:Is this Frank Zappa? It sounds like this guy that was my boss at the beer distributor, cause he used to always go "Do it! Do it!". It sounds like him, maybe being backed by Faust, or someone with a whoopee cushion.

fakejazz:It's Jefferson Airplane. How do you feel that the Arco Flute Foundation falls into the "psychedelic rock" tradition, as paved by Jefferson Airplane, or Faust, Can, whatever.

mike:The Grateful Dead?

fakejazz:Sure, the Grateful Dead. Do you feel that you are a psychedelic rock band? What does the term "psychedelic" mean to you?

mike:To me, I don't understand why all of the hippies aren't listening to space rock and psychedelic music of today instead of the Grateful Dead and such. It seems not really psychedelic but derived from folk and pop and even R&B. I don't really understand Phish. But I think we are more of a "drug rock" band in some way. I dunno if Pete would agree with that our not.

pete:We're more of an "experience" than something you can put on and dance to.

mike:Right. In fact, I would like to quote this man from Nambia, who was at our show in kalamazoo. He just came in to watch a show cause there were shows at this place--this was Arco--and he said "I came in with a block on my head in the front door, and your music just opened up pathways into my head and the back door, and then I was there, and you had me!" And that was one of the nicest compliments I have ever heard.

pete:And he said he considered us "world music" and "spiritual music" and more of an experience. He was expecting to come in and hear some punk-pop band but he said we were beautiful. And he also plays guitar.

mike:In a reggae band! And whenever he got into spacey music he called it... wait, I can't remember... moon rock or something. [Laughs] I can't remember.

fakejazz:Meisha, unlike Arco, are not a rock band. But would you feel that the term "psychedelic" would apply there, more or less?

mike:To me, psychedelic music is anything where the music takes apart your mind and sort of shakes your thoughts and you become lost in it.

pete:Not psychedelic as in the classic term, but more for music that sort of envelopes where you are at and you become sunk into your environment, and it makes you feel certain ways.

fakejazz:I see that Meisha, who I would consider to be "psychedelic," is a more cerebral type of "psychedelic"--more influenced by composers and "ambient" things than psychedelic music, while Arco seems to be more psychedelically influenced.

pete:I think it's about the same in both bands. We're definitely mixing the rock feel with the spacey stuff.

10. Tenrikyo Hawaii Dendocho Group - "Etenraku" from Music of Asia

mike:Is this This Heat?

fakejazz:No. This will be the last cut of the night, before you go off to your certain deaths.

mike:Is this Vietnamese music?

fakejazz:Japan.

pete:Interesting. We haven't really studied music of Japan much, but it certainly seems interesting. I've heard some Korean music that sounded very interesting. Actually, I saw some new age hippie guy do some Japanese music that was pretty good.

fakejazz:Do you feel that there are geographic boundaries to music? Would a bunch of white guys playing Indian music be disrespectful? Likewise, would a bunch of Indian guys rapping be wrong?

mike:Several years ago I used to really think that. I'm really into finding a form of American music and finding a culture within America. A couple of years ago I really felt that me playing something Indian influenced would be wrong. Then I started listening to DJ Spooky a lot, and he started pulling in all of these different canons. And then I started thinking about the sound rather than where it was coming from. At this point I'm more interested in the sound. But I could see where people would be offended. In Indian music you have to spend so long just trying to understand what's going on. I mean, you can spend five years just learning to play one string. I'm sure with the discipline involved in that, then someone else just picking it up - I could see someone getting upset. But at this point I really just care about the sound.

fakejazz:Do you feel that Arco and Meisha are uniquely American music? What do you feel IS uniquely American music? Harry Partch? Jazz? Hip-hop?

mike:Yeah, jazz, Harry Partch.

pete:Faust. [laughter]

mike:Yeah, Faust! What the fuck were they doing over there? [laughs]

pete:The Beatles.

fakejazz:Okay, let's say that the Beatles are arguable the fathers of rock. Would you say that all rock is inherently British? And jazz and hip-hop are true American styles?

mike:I dunno. America seems more... improvised music in America feels much more American to other improvised music. It seems more natural to me--Americans seem to feel things out more to me. Americans feel more--inspired--or something. Do you know what I'm trying to get at?

fakejazz:Well, there's a bias cause you are American. I guess there's something very different about seeing Fennesz, or seeing...

mike:Kevin Drumm.

fakejazz:Exactly. Their nationality totally makes a difference in their music. I mean, you can have Nachtluft, or AMM (who are British), or something American like that... look at jazz! European free jazz is totally different than American. Peter Brotzmann is totally differerent; look at Derek Bailey. Of course are they co-opting African American styles? To me, the Arco Flute Foundation are a very American band--not that you're Bruce Springsteen or something.

pete:We're a world band!

fakejazz:I mean, you played a show with Jabali Africa.

mike:Right.

11. Earth Trumpet - "untitled" from Earth Trumpet (forthcoming)

fakejazz:I lied--one more. A hint, since this is the last cut: this will be the next release on Cenotaph Audio.

mike:This is the Earth Trumpet.

pete:I like this record a lot.

mike:It sounds like a junkie Atman. [laughter]

pete:We have to leave now to pick up Paul Groper.

fakejazz:Any final words?

mike:We are American. We love America.